Curse

kanaxais_scythe · Jan 26, 2007, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I have been playing since beta and I quite like the game. Not so much the community but the game. That is, until recently. Due to the invention of heroes this game has become a single player game, that you need a password to play. The way I see it as any future chapters will be pretty well destroyed by this fact. Instead of trying builds for missions with people, heroes will be used. Nobody will do anything but buy/trade with others in the game.

I do think heroes were a halfway decent idea when they were originally thought up, but I don't think the consequences of adding them was thought out. If I wanted to play a single player game I could do so and not use bandwidth or waste time even being bothered by other peoples crap in the chat window.

Players also have no idea how to play the game anymore either because of heroes. I was helping a guildie with Ring of Fire and I saw a Warrior using Mending then spamming Defy Pain. That is all they did. A minion master is Dzagonur Bastion had no minion healing and he had every single minion spell. People run around with no elite, which sometimes is not bad but it is usually good to bring one. I think Prophecies did great in teaching players what to do, and havign characters in both Elona and Cantha had led me to believe players are not really being taught the game by those tutorial sections.

Domain of Anguish helps with the problem of players not being the brightest in a way. But it is more of a "who can sit at their pc the longest" type of deal. Some coordination is needed but after awhile its so long some peopel might stop caring. I know it happened to me with a very good communicative group. I stayed all the way until the end when everyone quit at once. But I was dozing off while playing or just not paying attention.

PvP is just as bad if not worse. The test changes to Heroes' Ascent did very little to help the situation. Yes people actually got some new temporary builds that did well that weekend but no longer work. But with the huge ebay/ingame account selling for rank situation you can no longer tell who is actually a good player. They might be rank 9 and be quite bad with no idea what is going on, but due to the way the game is you have to actually fight and lose battles to see this.

Arena.net needs to implement a very large skill balance or change. Alot of things are very overpowered and it is evident. The weekend sort of helped, again, but still had some problems. Heroes' Ascent would benefit with a change to large numbers of skills because people will find new builds to run. I don't like running any gimmick builds. Though some that look interesting I will give a try, but I usually don't play them more then a few times. The districts are nothign but people spamming for groups yet nobody makes groups. And when somebody does you can barely if ever find players who are decent enough for a good run. It is even better when you lose and the players actually contribute ideas as to what went wrong and how to improve.

The game was great with its original intent but now it seems to be slipping away. The greatness the game once had it fading rather quickly. I would like to play future chapters but if they are going to go the way of Nightfall and be a single player game I think I will invest in some other game. Perhaps the developers shoudl take a step back and reanalyze what made the original good and work from that. It could be changed enough to be different but keep the quality of the original and not have a rushed product like Factions.

Lmao Roflus · Jan 26, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

I'm getting real tired of reading long winded posts about people's life stories of how they can't deal with this game on any aspect..

If you don't like heroes, don't put heroes in your group. If you don't like PUGs then get a better guild. If Domain of Anguish is too challenging for you then don't do it.

You have a problem with Heroes Ascent and rank issues? Live with it. It has always been like this.

And then we go to this stuff about balance changes. Why don't you enlighten us with what should and shouldn't be changed? Merely saying these vauge generalizations doesn't help anything... "alot of things are overpowered...would benefit with a change to a large number of skills..."

Would you also explain to me why you don't like running these so called "gimmick builds". It seems so contradictory, first you can't find a group and then when you find one you don't like it because it is running a "gimmick build". What a joke. What do you want? When does a gimmick begin and end with you?

Not one positive thing to say, it is like you threw a bunch of common forum complaints all into one long unorganzied post.

If you can't come up with an original Heroes Ascent build then you could at least come up with some original complaints to put on this forum.

Grais · Jan 26, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Whining and complaining maybe, but the fact is the end of Nightfall is desserted.
I dont think Anet realised the effect Heroes would have on the game.
Basically it is now a 'CRPG' with a password, for seemingly thousands of players.
Talk in outposts past Vabbi is non existent, except for Title Runners offering their services,gotta get that title, though for what reason I do not know, its not like there is anyone to show it off too outside of Kamadan.
So last night, after I commented on the lack of any community vibe, a fellow player mentioned that the community is better in Tyria, so I checked it out, and he was right! Almost every outpost people were chatting, people LFG's etc... Not all conversations or talk I wanted to join in on, but life at least!!! People actually participating in an online exchange, it totally freaked me out, it is a totally different vibe, and all I can atribute it too is the lack of Heroes on native Tyrian 'bound' characters.
Players starting with Nightfall are at a disadvantage I think, introducing the heroes I think has a hidden message kind off effect, I mean here you start playing an online game, where youd think the emphasis should be on grouping with others, as it is in those two quests in Pre, but in NF, right away the game starts giving you 'Heroes', its almost as if they are urging people away, however subtley(spelling?), from grouping with other players.
People can say what they will about this game, the facts speak to me clearly, when I play in Elona I am playing a single player game. People trade in Kamadan, and S.H., but conversation is rare, and I have to go out of my way to group with people. I really just cant believe how desserted the game feels while still under 6 mos old. I think a lot of players probably just quit after not being able to get by GoM, or one of the other harder missions(turns out there are a few tuff missions after all), and being that there is so little group dynamic happening in the game, make that none, they quit, or go to Tyria, or go farm by themselves.
THK was packed for a long time, and was still quite crowded last time I was there, a few weeks back(didnt hit THK last night).
Im not trying to join in a whine fest, If I want community I'll find it, if I want too party I will,I'm just relating how it looks to a player that loved the experience that was Prophecies,my first real online game, and While I have enjoyed Nightfall, I feel worried for the future.
Where are the players?
For the casual player, not the hardcores, the guy who plays a couple a times a week, the guy that just wants to party with some strangers, and complete a quest or two ? Who knows maybe he'll meet a friend to group up with the next time hes on.
This is the type of thing I mean.
The hardcore will be fine, we will still play the game, we dont support it tho, the larger population does, and it is this way that I think they need to take GW's.
Quit trying to please the elite players, its an impossible task anyway. Thats what the elite areas are for. Open them up!!
Bring back the really fun experience, you have to make the missions fun, its not enough that they are just hard. They need to be fun, they need to encourage people to work together, but not be so hard they are the domain of title runners and a handful of elite.
I really hope Anet is paying attention to the ingame patterns that I am seeing. I can't see how they could not be aware of the situation, so I assume they are, and hopefully,they are working on some ideas to re-invigorate the party dynamic that was so much a part of the classic Prophecies. Thats what I hope for, its too good of a game to think otherwise.

SodOffShotgun · Jan 26, 2007, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Heroes are not the problem. The community is the problem. When the community stops being filled with juvenile delinquents and can get along better then you'll see more people willing to group up together. But in the meantime, Heroes are a damn good thing.

Also, just because there are less PUGs doesnt mean that people arent playing with friends and guildies. Now stop exaggerating about the bit about GW turning into a single player game. It's cliche and untrue. PVP certainly isnt single player.

Vinraith · Jan 26, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Heroes brought me back to the game. I'm not alone in that, I'm sure. The inaccessability of high level areas to solo/small groups supplemented by henchmen was the main reason I stopped playing and didn't buy Factions at release. Now that heroes are around I can have a full customizable party with just another friend or two being online, so problem solved.

GW is wonderfully distinct from other MMO's in that it doesn't force you to deal with other people unless you want to. I would dearly hope that, in any future changes Anet would make, they would keep in mind that there are a lot of us that are playing this game over the competition specifically because we don't want to PUG.

My War Can Solo Everythin · Jan 26, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

A-Net should do a thing. A very IMPORTANT thing.
Automatic delete EVERY wtb/wts in Global Chat.

Since ppl started to ONLY SELL in cities, gw is no more a RPG.
Where the Role Play? All ppl is roleplaying a merchant -.-?

I'm saying that if there is a "if u trade in global chat u get 24h banned" system,
ppl will start to talk about other things than items.

If A-Net do nothin in that sense, gw will surely become a "pvp/sell-perfect-items" game.
And this is a lot boring.

I hope you all agree and ANet make a BIG change in this sense.
They should give to this the priority, because pve is becoming boring.

Want to sell or buy an item? Use the trade chat. Wanna talk/have fun/tell something/discuss/make parties/share ideas? Global Chat

SodOffShotgun · Jan 26, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by My War Can Solo Everythin

A-Net should do a thing. A very IMPORTANT thing.
Automatic delete EVERY wtb/wts in Global Chat.

Since ppl started to ONLY SELL in cities, gw is no more a RPG.
Where the Role Play? All ppl is roleplaying a merchant -.-?

I'm saying that if there is a "if u trade in global chat u get 24h banned" system,
ppl will start to talk about other things than items.

If A-Net do nothin in that sense, gw will surely become a "pvp/sell-perfect-items" game.
And this is a lot boring.

I hope you all agree and ANet make a BIG change in this sense.
They should give to this the priority, because pve is becoming boring.

That's exactly one of many problems why there isnt more socializing in GW. Too much trade spam. And spam in general. And then there isnt any sort of moderating in chat to weed out the tards. So most people don't even bother talking to others.

My War Can Solo Everythin · Jan 26, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Now ppl is anti-social in cities, the only thing they do is sell.

I'm the only one, or YOU ALL are VERY TIRED of this too?
Would you all like to see ppl talking, have fun, tell something to others,
discuss, make parties, share ideas or make role playing?
Or you all like to play pve as a drop/sell/buy game?

A-Net, i think that all players will be very grateful to you if in the global chat
is impossible to trade, i'm sure of this.
You just have to ban all the ppl that ruins the game in this way, or just FULL BAN
the trade messages in global chat.

I hope you all share my opinion

Perynne · Jan 26, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

People don't seem to know what they want. I'm also tired of all this complaining that the heroes suck or the players suck. If you don't like it, don't play it.

Heroes were created in the first place because tons of people complained about henchmen being idiots and wanting more control over them. So Anet decided to answer this issue by creating heroes, and what do they get as a reward? Tons of people complaining that heroes spoil the game and that they should be removed.
I think heroes are great - they're perfect for filling in the missing spots in groups and for doing small things that you generally wouldn't get a group interested in (like taking screenies in hard areas, or doing exploration). If you really wanted to play with others, then you could just ditch the heroes and get human players.

If more and more people end up using heroes for missions and stuff, then there's obviously a problem elsewhere. Why would people want to take an AI along, that is clearly inferior to an average human brain? With a good group, you can beat missions even faster than with heroes and don't need to bother with flagging and cursing when your heroes break aggro due to kiting.
Still, many people opt for heroes, when they're clearly inferior. You know why? It's probably due to the fact that the average player in GW has an IQ even lower than a hero. Most times player groups just ignore teamwork and mindlessly spam whatever they can just to annoy everyone else. They don't bother to learn the game, they don't bother to think about their own skills, they only want a pre-chewed game where they can chat to other tards in pretty surroundings with cool titles and fame.

Good gamers, on the other hand, tend to join guilds with likeminded people, and then do missions with full player groups from these same guilds. This is one of the reason all the towns are empty of local chat and people looking for groups. Players who like teaming up with others usually just ask their guildies, instead of going through the teeth-grinding annoyance of a PuG. So, if you want better teams and more socializing, join a guild.
It would be nice to have more socializing outside of the guild too, but thanks to the people who don't want to learn the game, this has driven most people to just turn off Local channel.

I think this will always be a problem in GW. The game is trying to be too many things at once. It's trying for single-play, while also wanting socializing. If they wanted the game to swing completely into co-operative mode, they should just create more difficult missions that require two or more human players to get past them.
This would, of course, irritate the single players, but hey, an online game is online simply for the socializing. If GW was meant to be for single players it would be an offline game.

Oh yeah, and then there's always PvP which most PvE doomsayers tend to ignore. That's never single-player.

Lord Dobo · Jan 26, 2007, 08:39 AM // 08:39

This topic is always coming up and I'm always split on how I feel about it.

I totally sympathise with you on feeling like the heart fell out of the community. I've been playing since around a month after launch and like many "hardcore" guild wars fans, have at least around 2000 hours of gameplay behind me. So I've seen many changes for better and worse.

One thing that feels really different is meeting new people. This game was my first MMO and I can't compare it to others, but it seems empty when it's not.

I'm generally anti-social and will play a game as far as I can with only henchies, in fact other than the few times in factions when you have no choice, I've done it all alone at least once. But it used to be that after I was done I would go back and help new people through the harder parts, making new friends and sometimes adding new people to my guild. And that I miss. It would actually take some effort in most towns to get someone to even want to team up because the common thought floating around is that you are a noob if you need "help." It's either that or your class is looked down upon. So being social loses out.

The pacing of prophesies tended to make better players of people who really had to invest time into makeing their builds work for them. Most of the friends I made back then are still friends now. But after that joke of a training island in factions and the new addition of heros (which I will tell you why I actually like them in a sec), the quality of players has degraded tremendously. This led to PUGs being abandoned like I mentioned above, and is just too frustrating to have to go through over and over again, time most people just don't want to put in.

I think part of this is the fault of having to buy your skills. When you got a new skill in prophesies you added it to your skill bar and took that sucker out for a spin. You had a nice trek to the next town, and might have had it a while before you leveled, so each new skill was kinda neat in an odd way, even if most of them ended up junked. Now most players I run into don't have any skills and don't know what to buy anyways because they make snap descisions about skills that they never tried out in the field, never found the nuances that you sometimes only experience by accident. It's not really their fault a lot of the time either, fully buying all of the available skills can be costly (beleive me, I have ten characters, one for each class and have spent well over 2.5 million by my last count on armors, dyes, skills, guild matters, and even some charity.)

Weird thing is, I still love this game and am continually drawn to buying new armors, working on crafting new weapons, progressing each character, and helping out friends.

That last thing is the oddest part. Now, because of heros, it's even easier to get them to attempt missions without a full compliment of real people. It's never really been a problem getting them through with only henchies, but it's way easier. Now my wife is more likely to hop on her account and play around, sometimes even joining me in a mission (she's never beena social person and will only play alone.) And many of my old friends have lost the desire to PUG and heros keep thier interest in the game alive by making it "feel" to them that we have a complete group.

I also love having the control we do over the npc's. The synergy that you get with a henchman that you fully outfit can't really be matched by most real people now adays, no matter what people say. It allows you to much more freedom in solitary exploration because you are able to more fully control the diretion you want to take things in. Henchmen will do, but heros are far better. Real people get annoyed at you pausing to watch something happen on tv, and I personally got sick long ago of people constantly going afk during a mission that I've already done before and I'm helping them through.

So in conclussion, if it is that at all, I love the heros, but I miss meeting new people. I won't disband my guild of close friends to do so, but I don't really see a community out there. I also won't give up the mechanic of heros, they are just too neat, so I hope they stay. :/ I could ramble on more, but I'm going to stop here.

Eilsys · Jan 26, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47

A-net's tried to listen to too many people... I think the game is more difficult than Prophecies/Cantha this time around, but the learning curve is much steeper as well. So newer players are often worse than a henchie team, and older players don't want to lose a mission because one player and their hero/es is dragging the team down.

One of the original selling points of GW was that you didn't have to play with people, and that's true... the community's never been amazing, but now there's no real incentive to pass knowledge along, now that you don't "need" other players.

I'll miss making friends in PUGs though... only times I meet new people is in AB.

Fril Estelin · Jan 26, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Hi,
I don't mean to offend anyone, but is there a contest among elder players to win the "best post on what I think of GW, its demise or future"? If so, shouldn't it be "let's all discuss what's important among the dozens, if not hundreds, of improvement suggestions around"? I understand that the forum is indeed here for expressing your views, but don't you realise the amount of redundancy between all those posts?

(and I REALLY DO appreciate posts from long-time players who share their history and experience, but not when it's for ranting and basically asking "do something about the situation"; I'm sure those players can bring more to the community, e.g. educating us newb or explaining why such and such feature is better than this one for example, and hope they will)

Sakki · Jan 26, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by My War Can Solo Everythin

Now ppl is anti-social in cities, the only thing they do is sell.

I'm the only one, or YOU ALL are VERY TIRED of this too?
Would you all like to see ppl talking, have fun, tell something to others,
discuss, make parties, share ideas or make role playing?
Or you all like to play pve as a drop/sell/buy game?

A-Net, i think that all players will be very grateful to you if in the global chat
is impossible to trade, i'm sure of this.
You just have to ban all the ppl that ruins the game in this way, or just FULL BAN
the trade messages in global chat.

I hope you all share my opinion

You should cross out the names for that screenshot.

Btw I never had problems with WTS spam on local, maybe I forgot to turn local chat on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Hi,
I don't mean to offend anyone, but is there a contest among elder players to win the "best post on what I think of GW, its demise or future"? If so, shouldn't it be "let's all discuss what's important among the dozens, if not hundreds, of improvement suggestions around"? I understand that the forum is indeed here for expressing your views, but don't you realise the amount of redundancy between all those posts?

(and I REALLY DO appreciate posts from long-time players who share their history and experience, but not when it's for ranting and basically asking "do something about the situation"; I'm sure those players can bring more to the community, e.g. educating us newb or explaining why such and such feature is better than this one for example, and hope they will)

I always enjoyed helping new people out BUT most of them were VERY annoying. During one particular mission this new guy keeps spamming "can i have tat weapon plz" almost everytime when an item dropped for a party member. But theres also some very nice people who you will gladly help them out

IMO gw is a very hard game to play good in, I hope Anet can have a better tutorial system in future chapters like those quests in pre searing which does teach you about how the game works.

I still remember that particular hammer quest in pre searing which thought me about knockdowns when I first started playing. "You have to use Hammer Bash to interrupt that ettin's skill" Ahh good times, fun fun.

Lord Dobo · Jan 26, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Hi,
I don't mean to offend anyone, but is there a contest among elder players to win the "best post on what I think of GW, its demise or future"? If so, shouldn't it be "let's all discuss what's important among the dozens, if not hundreds, of improvement suggestions around"? I understand that the forum is indeed here for expressing your views, but don't you realise the amount of redundancy between all those posts?

You don't offend. And we realise it's redundant, but the community really is so different it kinda just makes us all just sigh and spill our thoughts. We don't mean to annoy either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

(and I REALLY DO appreciate posts from long-time players who share their history and experience, but not when it's for ranting and basically asking "do something about the situation"; I'm sure those players can bring more to the community, e.g. educating us newb or explaining why such and such feature is better than this one for example, and hope they will)

I think most of us still help newer players out, but it's no longer people we meet inside the game anymore. The community is just so dead. Most new people we help are just people we bring into the game from outside it or who happen to join our guilds. No offense, but I wish the game was like it was where people would talk in towns and you could get in on a good joke. Then after all the laughs were done, you would team up and head off to kill some stuff and move to the next town. It's no longer like that and we "elders" miss it.

glountz · Jan 26, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Stop whining.
Get a guild.
/Not signed.

Age · Jan 26, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Stop whining.
Get a guild.
/Not signed.

That is hard to do and getting into a good guild and recruiting is even harder than it was before.

Cheeva B · Jan 26, 2007, 10:38 AM // 10:38

The Advent of the heroes was a good call IMO. With 3 chapters out and another coming, the number of people available for certain missions will drop. Now you can add who you need without having to rely on the henches running up to heal you and constantly bunching for AOE. Just like in THK or Hells Precipice, someone who knows what to bring for a team build can supplement a group with "experienced" members of the group. By experienced, I mean npc's with full skill bars in the group and knowledge on using those skills.

I've all but quit the game due to spamming. Its pathetic to see people making others mad thinking they'll sell what they have by the volume of chat entries they have. I still support my guild by signing on nightly and saying hi so they dont appear to have an inactive player. I've also moved on to another established game until this is somehow resolved. If you think the trade spam is bad, try an American district in Temple of the Ages when America has favor. Its a madhouse.

Guild Wars is a great game, some of the people playing though, need some lessons on getting along with others. Its not the games fault for this, but the fact that conduct is allowed is why people have a fuss. I've used "Ask A Question" numerous times to see if they'd do something about the volume of spamming that goes on. The replies I get inform us to come to a fansite and air it out for the community. So Lmao Roflus, if you have a problem with the content, I shall direct you to Guild Wars Support. The gripes in game are directed here from them. Numerous posts have been made about spamming being out of control, and they send us to a fansite to discuss it. The volume of posts about this has surely caught their eye, but no luck in alleviating the problem besides the Party window with minimal ad space to use.

I can deal with new players and helping them. If others actually helped new players rather than call them noobs or simply kicking them to the curb, maybe more experienced players will evolve. What I can't deal with though is the sheer number of people who disregard others with their disruption of the game itself.

EPO Bot · Jan 26, 2007, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Better get yourself a large guild for socializing.

Heroes are fine.

glountz · Jan 26, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

That is hard to do and getting into a good guild and recruiting is even harder than it was before.

I kinda agree and disagree.
When I quitted guilds, having no Tag nor Cape gave me a lot of whispering.
Finding a guild is easy.
If you're not pleased with your guild, warn your guild leader and leave. As soon as you will be in town you'll get a lot of whisper for joining.
There is no "good guild". There is "like minded" guilds. Guilds for fun. Guilds for hardcore PVE. Guilds for HArdcore PvP. RP guilds. Guilds with only 18+ guys in. Guilds with only girls. Only some of them may suit you.
However I agree recruting has become difficult. Not because there is a lack of players. But because too much players nowadays see guilds as a supermarket. When they join, they ask for help, items, plats or whatever, and when it comes to ask them for a GvG or HoH, nobody's here.
The issue here is not recruting, it is recruting the good people.
GW's community will feel better when most of players will stop asking what their guild can do for them, and start awondering what they can do for their guild.

Fril Estelin · Jan 26, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Dobo

I think most of us still help newer players out, but it's no longer people we meet inside the game anymore. The community is just so dead. Most new people we help are just people we bring into the game from outside it or who happen to join our guilds. No offense, but I wish the game was like it was where people would talk in towns and you could get in on a good joke. Then after all the laughs were done, you would team up and head off to kill some stuff and move to the next town. It's no longer like that and we "elders" miss it.

This is so sad. I always knew I started playing GW too late and the game has evolved such that spam/scam and n00b (as opposed to newb) became major annoyances (even to newb like me). I'll probably never see that, unless I'm lucky in finding a good guild (I'm taking my time here) or one of the nice guys I can read here apparently.

May be we need to start an online strike or a virtual revolution? Bring back the spirit in the game? (instead of waiting for him to come back ... hey people! come back to Tyria! outposts are empty

) This is not the kind of thing a little nothing like me can do, while elders and guilds can easily start a community movement.

Guild Wars II: The Rebirth (utopia?

)